As a few other students noted, I think envy is rooted in the lack of something within the one who succumbs to envy, and this something is not necessarily what one desires (i.e. the ‘good’). This lack is the primary emotion, and though one may express their state as being envious of another, the emphasis is not so much on the emotion one extends towards the ‘rival’, but the lack of something within, which can continuously manifest. Envy may spring up again, either when the ‘good’ is attained, or even without an effort to attain the ‘good’, as the ‘good’ can come up again and again in different ‘rivals’. Once one realizes it is not really the ‘rival’, or the ‘good’ that is the cause of envy, but the lack of something, whether it be self-esteem, self-confidence or whatever, that one may not desire the ‘good’ any longer, or wish for the ‘rival’ to lose the ‘good’, but still suffer at the recognition of the rival’s good which reminds one, even sub-consciously of something that one lacks.
Envy is a sin because it establishes one’s recognition of something that one lacks, and instead of making an effort to fill that gap, one’s attention is on another’s ‘good’ which one may desire (which can periodically fill the gap) and loathe that other for having, which can promote the thought of ill-will toward another, and/or the prolonging of suffering within oneself.
If the above is true, can envy be a warranted motivator?
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where envy is a warranted motivator, it is not a sin, and therefore i see it necessary to not call it envy, but admiration.
ReplyDeletei agree with everything you said, but i think that the "lack" is an illusion created by the ego and as you alluded to (correct me if i'm wrong) the fulfillment of the gap, will not annihilate the envy. if we only look at envy as being envious of the object of desire, the concept will remain elusive because the object is not important, it is the desire which needs to be annihilated. if we can abstract the ego, we see ourselves as whole and stand back from the ridiculous concept of trying to take in any more than what we naturally have. this is expressed in nature as displacement, if there is a cup of water that is full, and you pour more water into it, it spills over the sides. i think we are that full cup of water but the ego isn't responsible for knowing how full the cup is, that is reason's job, the ego's job is to fill the cup (consume energy) and so when the ego dominates the decision making process, energy is displaced perpetuating the feeling of lack because it sees what it wants inside, outside ad nauseum. any thoughts?
Great post Ben; wish I wrote it.
ReplyDeleteFrom this sentence alone it’s impossible to know whether one is envious of the ideas in the post that may have possibly illuminated feelings of inadequacy or self-doubt (or that which one lacks)—and possibly to fill that gap, a person might defame the character of the author, or cause harm by some other means. Or, perhaps the sentence is a simple recognition of a feeling that represents a fact; and though a person might admire the author; it doesn’t necessarily translate into action. Or finally, a person might both admire it and be slightly envious to the point of a healthy and challenging exchange of ideas. In other words, might a little envy rouse the human spirit, and be a “warranted motivator” for one to join the discussion and hopefully add something of value; perhaps something that others might find challenging? I think so; and I think because we are motivated to action, there may exist a little envy in the mix.
Brendon, I wonder why we have to “annihilate” the desire. Desire is a special breed, do we really possess enough of it to destroy it because for whatever reason it might be misdirected. Might we harness and transfer this desire or energy force onto something productive: something constructive? I like where you’re headed with the ego dominating reason; but instead of the cup of water being in a state of fullness; might it be perpetually filling up? What I mean is, if we drink from the glass the energy is recycled, so there is no longer a need to “annihilate” desire.
Brendon,
ReplyDeleteWith admiration, the admirer does not suffer. And I do not think desire needs to be annhilated, as I think it can be, and is suppose to be, channeled into a positive,
constructive means and end. However, envy ignites a desire for something one does not need. I also think that we are not a full cup, hence the position of the ego to develop our incompleteness in a way that one thinks best; but I agree it needs to be accompanied with reason so not to fill the cup with polluted water.
Keane,
Though admiration may not take one to action, I do not think one needs to be envious to act.
With envy, the motive to act is not for the sake of improving oneself, or adding something
of value to the discussion, even if this occurs as a consequence, but to fulfill this lacking, as I called it, which can be torturous, while there is no true value in the 'good' (whether it be a well thought out response to an inquiry, or whatever) for the one with envy. This seems like something one would wish to avoid, and would rather be motivated to action by one's own interest of self-improvement or that of anything else, i.e. a discussion. One should not be motivated to action in the desire to counteract what another has done, and if one is, it is not so much what another has done, but what the envier lacks.
Rather than condemning envy in its entirety, might we extract the desire contained within?
ReplyDeleteI am not condoning the negative attributes present in envy, such as: malevolence and resentment. What I suggest is that the one redeemable quality present in envy be extracted and utilized for good. This one quality is desire, or emulation. Humans are fallible creatures; that means we are lacking in many things. So, I think the first thing to understand that lacking something is not a negative, but rather, assuming one recognizes what precisely they lack, it can be constructive.
I also agree that Kantian means-in-themselves must exist if we are to achieve a genuine end.
So, envy in its entirety is not a “warranted motivator” but, emulation, and desire, when harnessed with genuine intent, is valuable.
As humans, we lack certain skills, certain qualities, and many other things, and I think that, on occasion, “our own interest of self-improvement” might be motivated by a desire to emulate, perhaps at least in the beginning.
I’m not familiar with the “tortuous” lacking you speak of; as this seems to put persons at odds with their selves; fostering a state of resentment and unhealthy longing for what one desires. To lack is natural; and can promote the right kind of desire into action.
Also; no judgments on your post were made in my previous post. The statement, “Great post…”intended to metaphorically serve as a catalyst into the discussion. The idea is that meanings extracted from simple statements or vague terms vary and will only be precisely identified in usage and context. And in this way, I hoped to show how desire (passion, longing), as one of the most valuable attributes we might possess in our Lockian estates, might be usefully extracted from envy.
I agree that humans are naturally lacking and desire to fulfill that or improve, hence my disagreement with Brendon about having a full cup. However, I think it may be difficult to simply 'extract' desire from the state of envy, as I think those that become envious do not often act upon the desire, and sulk in their resentful state, and if this resulting desire is acted upon, what good does it do for the envier if this desire of the good attained from the action is merely a temporary stop-gap, before that one envies another. It may, as a consequence, be a positive result for a whole to which the envier is only a part (i.e. a discussion), but the envier itself still suffers. Desire, independent of envy, is what I am suggesting be channeled for a positive end, which can be triggered by one's own interest for improvement. Yes, this may begin with the admiration of another, but this is not envy, as I am defining the term anyway.
ReplyDeleteI agree, it seems a difficult task to extract envy; but, in our current state of affairs (Here, I am speaking in practical terms, not ideal terms) it might be necessary regardless of the difficulties. I also agree that the accepted definition of envy is not something to aspire to. I posted what I think is an interesting article on Envy on my blog.
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